Subjects: PM’s weak response on PLA-N warships, Foreign Minister’s failure to meet with Israel at UN
E&OE…
Kieran Gilbert: Let’s bring in the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister, David Coleman. The Deputy Prime Minister has warned Andrew Hastie and the Coalition to tone the language down. What do you say to him on that, particularly in terms of the reference to gunboat diplomacy? He’s rejecting that notion and says that the Chinese have acted within international law to this point.
David Coleman: Oh look, I think the Government has to tell the truth to the Australian people, Kieran. I mean, what the Government’s effectively trying to do here is say there’s nothing to see here and plainly there is something to see here. And I haven’t really seen any analysis other than that of Richard Marles and Anthony Albanese, suggesting that there isn’t an issue to be discussed here. This is concerning. We should be honest about that with the Australian people, and we should be raising that with our Chinese counterparts in a measured and calm way. But we shouldn’t be displaying weakness. And importantly, Kieran, the Prime Minister needs to front up on this issue of, I mean, it seems pretty black and white that he’s misled the country. He hasn’t answered questions on that today. I don’t know where he is, whether he’s planning on doing media this afternoon. But he’s got to answer questions because this is very concerning.
Kieran Gilbert: When you say it’s black and white, can you just explain how in your opinion that’s the case.
David Coleman: Yeah. Well, he said that notification was provided, but it emerges from Senate Estimates that notification or notice was provided after the incident had commenced, and plainly on any sensible reading of the English language, notice means before, not after. So if the Prime Minister’s argument is notification once something is started is sufficient, or that, that is in fact notice – that’s just plainly wrong. And as the CDF made clear yesterday, the notice wasn’t received until the incident had commenced. And then there’s the separate issue about the fact that it took so long to then make its way through to our defence forces. But look, if the Prime Minister’s got an explanation for this, let’s hear it. But I don’t believe he’s got, I mean, maybe he does have a press conference scheduled for this afternoon, I’m not sure. But he should address those issues because he’s plainly at odds with the CDF, a person of unimpeachable integrity. And the Prime Minister needs to front up and explain himself.
Kieran Gilbert: Is there, well, the Deputy Prime Minister said that that’s the whole point as to why they raised their concerns with the Chinese authorities, including face to face between Penny Wong and her counterpart, because the notification wasn’t good enough. That’s sort of underpinning why they were complaining in the first place. Isn’t that fair? In the sense that the problem is coming from China as opposed to the Government?
David Coleman: Oh plainly, the activity is an activity of China, not the Government, of course, Kieran. But the Prime Minister has said that notice was provided. In a practical sense, notice wasn’t provided because the incident had already started. So I think it’s just untenable for the Government to suggest that notice was provided when it actually was provided after the incident started. And so if the Prime Minister wants to argue that his statements on Friday, and over the weekend, and on Monday, if he wants to argue that those statements were accurate, that’s a matter for him. But plainly they’re not. But he can clear that up by addressing the media and explaining it.
Kieran Gilbert: Well, I think the Deputy Prime Minister, as Defence Minister has also sort of reiterated that view. But in terms of Australia’s response to this, do you think that the Government should be more muscular in this sense to send more vessels? The Defence Minister said there is an Australian asset already shadowing this Chinese group, an Australian ship. Do we need to be more forward leaning in terms of the response?
David Coleman: Look, Kieran, I think the key point, as I said before, is that the Government is only talking about the issue of notice and notification, and frankly, making inaccurate statements about that. But the Government doesn’t want to talk about the actual activity itself. And it’s very reasonable to say that the activity is concerning. It’s not something we’ve seen in our waters before. It’s occurred on a very busy commercial aircraft route between Sydney and New Zealand, and it’s absolutely appropriate to be honest with the Australian people about that. And it’s also appropriate to raise that issue with our counterparts in China, in a sensible and mature fashion. I think that’s in the interests of both countries. In terms of the shadowing aspects of it, I’ll leave that to Andrew Hastie in his role as the Shadow Defence Minister. But I do think that clearly the Government has responded in a very weak fashion on this issue. In a very similar way to the way they responded weakly on the PLA sonar attack on those Australian Navy divers, when the Prime Minister had an opportunity to raise that with President Xi and didn’t do so. He should have done that because he should stand up for Australia’s interests. And I think history is clear that you don’t succeed through weakness. We’re seeing weakness here and we see it across the board from this Government.
Kieran Gilbert: We just saw reports that your opposite member, the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, at the United Nations last year had met with Iran and others at the UN, but not Israel. This was at the time that she was calling for a timeline for the Palestinian state. What do you make of this report that she did not meet with the Israelis while at the General Assembly, again discussing these matters?
David Coleman: Yeah, well clearly, she should have done so Kieran. The Prime Minister was there, no doubt there were other Israeli officials there. She could have met with them. She didn’t. And I think that’s consistent with the Foreign Minister’s approach on this issue overall. She has shamefully abandoned Israel in pursuit of a few votes in inner city contests against the Greens. It is utterly wrong. For more than two decades, we had a bipartisan position in Australia. On issues related to the Middle East and issues related to Israel. Penny Wong trashed that. Penny Wong walked away from that for a few votes. And that is sordid. It is unacceptable. And that is what the Minister has done and that’s what the Albanese Government did on this issue.
Kieran Gilbert: Penny Wong in response to questioning, though, today she said that the Israeli Foreign Minister wasn’t there. If her counterpart was there, she would have met with the Foreign Minister. Is this just an unfortunate case where the sort of protocol suggests that the Prime Minister doesn’t meet with a Foreign Minister.
David Coleman: No, I think that’s silly Kieran. I mean, there are lots of times when Penny Wong has met with Prime Ministers and other officials, and that happens very frequently. She could have clearly met with somebody representing Israel if she wanted to. She met with Jacinda Ardern at the same meeting. Jacinda Ardern isn’t representing any government – so she had time to do that. So I think to insist that, well, if my direct counterpart isn’t there, I’m not going to seek a meeting with anyone else – on such a crucial issue, at the same time as she was abandoning Israel at the United Nations, I don’t think that excuse passes muster at all. And I think it’s entirely consistent with the Minister’s conduct on this issue. I mean, let’s be clear what happened here. Hamas attacked Israel. Hamas, one of its motivations was to try to get the world to move away from Israel, to distance itself from Israel and that’s what Australia did. It’s shameful and Penny Wong has to be held to account for that behaviour.
Kieran Gilbert: David Coleman, we’re out of time. I appreciate your time, as always.