Subjects: Anthony Albanese’s handling of the alleged planned terrorist attack; President Trump’s Gaza proposal, Labor’s politicisation of the two-state solution for the Middle East, UNRWA, election, PM’s weakness on anti-Semitism
E&OE…
Mark Levy: The Prime Minister under increasing pressure on multiple fronts. If Anthony Albanese was hoping for a new year reset, he didn’t exactly get one. He was forced to capitulate on mandatory minimum sentences, putting him at odds with decades long Labor policy. Questions continue to grow around his relationship with intelligence and police services, as well as Labor New South Wales Premier Chris Minns and why he wasn’t briefed on Dural explosives caravan. And he squirmed his way out of any commitment when repeatedly asked about President Donald Trump’s plan for Gaza. There are also reports today that Labor officials started circulating material inviting its business forum subscribers to budget night events to be held on Tuesday March 25. If the Budget does go ahead, it’s looking increasingly likely that an election may not be held until May. David Coleman is the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs and he joins me on the line right now. Mr. Coleman, good morning to you.
David Coleman: Good morning, Mark.
Mark Levy: Well yesterday, Peter Dutton, wrote to the Prime Minister calling for an inquiry into the communication breakdown which showed the PM left in the dark about this Dural caravan discovery. And it’s extraordinary to think that the Prime Minister of Australia has still not been upfront about this, and what’s he got to hide?
David Coleman: 100% Mark. It is unbelievable. And I mean this is Anthony Albanese, he’s defined by his absence. Where is he? Because if you’re the leader of the country and this is one of the most crucial issues we face as a country, addressing anti-semitism and addressing these horrendous incidents we’re seeing around the country, you would expect that the first thing that the agencies would do is inform the Prime Minister because they would know that the Prime Minister had his hand on the levers and was actively involved in these issues. But it appears that hasn’t happened. And it obviously, Chris Minns was obviously advised, but it appears that the Prime Minister wasn’t. And one of the worst things here, Mark, is the Prime Minister is pretending that there’s some national security reason why he can’t say the date on which he was briefed. We’re not saying the actual content of the briefing but why on earth can’t he say the date? Now Chris Minns has said the date he was briefed. Why did Anthony Albanese not want to say the date? Because it’s very, very embarrassing for him.
Mark Levy: And David, look, with respect to the Prime Minister, he must think we’re all stupid. Now there’s a National Cabinet meeting and what, Chris Minns didn’t think to say, by the way, we found a caravan full of explosives. Not only that, he stood alongside the Premier when that childcare centre was set on fire at Maroubra in the eastern suburbs of Sydney. So there’s been multiple opportunities for someone to say, Geez what about these caravan full of explosives. Mind you, it’s a caravan full of explosives with a blast radius of 40 metres. If that doesn’t tell you we’ve got a national security problem, what does?
David Coleman: Well, absolutely. It would have been one of the worst incidents in our history, Mark, if this plot had been carried out and the agencies, the Premier, they’ve decided not to tell the PM, it appears. So he is there as not even a bystander, not involved at all it appears. And he needs to be upfront about what’s gone on here. He doesn’t want to say the date because if it turns out that he didn’t find out until the same day that everyone else did when it was reported in the Daily Tele, that just demonstrates once again how absent he is. And that’s embarrassing. So he dresses it up as some national security excuse. But why was he able to talk about dates he had other briefings on national security matters? Why is Chris Minns able to say the date he was briefed? There’s only one reason for the PM to not say the date, and that’s because it’s politically embarrassing. And it’s just another example of his incredible weakness. The PM would be much better off as being up front saying, ‘yeah well, I wasn’t briefed until this date’ and moving on. But he’s trying to hide it and it’s just another example of how weak this Prime Minister is.
Mark Levy: For Mr. Albanese to say, “oh we can’t be getting political with this sort of thing.” It is political, it’s national security. There’s nothing more political than the national security of this country. Now David, the AFP Commissioner Reece Kershaw, was asked about this yesterday in Canberra as well, he refused to answer questions about any briefing the PM received. Do you think he should have been up front and honest at that hearing yesterday?
David Coleman: Well look, I think the AFP Commissioner will be following protocols and so on, I’m reluctant to be critical of him. But I do think that we need to get to the bottom of what has gone on here, Mark, and that’s why we need an investigation. Imagine a scenario where the Prime Minister of the country is not told about such a crucial issue because frankly, he’s been so absent right from the start of this anti-semitism crisis. I mean, on October 9th, that night of infamy at the Sydney Opera House. That should have been the very clear message that this was the evil face of anti-semitism in this country. And the Prime Minister should have stepped up and led a national fight against it from that day. That’s what Peter Dutton would have done. Peter Dutton wrote to him in November- 15, 16 months ago and said, ‘we need a National Cabinet, we need to bring the nation together to fight this.” He didn’t do it. And now we’ve had this incident related to the caravan where he just won’t tell the truth about when he was briefed.
Mark Levy: It’s quite extraordinary. So, in one sense, you’ve got the Prime Minister standing there saying, “no, I can’t get political, we shouldn’t be getting political about this sort of thing.” And then the other massive news this week, the biggest global news of the week with President Donald Trump trying to restore peace in the Middle East. Admittedly, yes, there’s been some criticism of him, but hey it’s some sort of idea for the future of Gaza. And the Prime Minister is out there saying, “well, I’m not going to run a running commentary on the decision making of the US President, Donald Trump.” I mean, you obviously have a thought on what Mr. Trump has announced this week. What did you think of the announcement?
David Coleman: Yeah look, I think that as Peter Dutton said yesterday, the President’s a deal maker. He’s putting forward this proposal. And I think we all want to see, I know we all want to see peace in the Middle East. We’ve seen decades of war and devastation, innocent people being killed. And it appears the President is really looking for those other nations in the Middle East to step up and get more involved and that’s very understandable. Because we do all want to see peace. And we’ll wait for further details on this proposal as it comes along. But one of the really concerning things with the Government in the Middle East is they have walked away from long-standing bipartisan policy towards the Middle East and the two-state solution over there. And that’s basically because they see it as a political issue to manage against the Greens, which is outrageous.
Mark Levy: It’s interesting. I mean, quite clearly the Prime Minister is supporting a two-state solution, which, you know, when you think about the whole situation at the moment, we’ve got Penny Wong, who has been flapping in the wind on this as well. I mean, since October 72023, we’ve had Penny Wong go to the United Nations and vote in favour of recognising a Palestinian state. All the while we’ve got anti-semitic attacks here in Australia. Anthony Albanese’s been given multiple opportunities to make his position clear. So if they support a two-state solution, why doesn’t the Prime Minister just say that?
David Coleman: Well basically what they’re doing here, Mark, is they’re trying to win seats off the Greens. So they’ve got a battle on the left. And so what the Government has said is that for 20 years Australia has said we support a two-state solution, but only one that’s negotiated between the parties. And of course, Israel has to be in that negotiation and there has to be an agreed negotiated settlement. The Government now says there can be a recognition of Palestine even without a negotiation with the democracy in Israel. Now we say that is outrageous. That is wrong. And why has the Government done that? Because they want to compete with the Greens on the Palestine issue. They’re worried about seats down in Melbourne. They’re worried about Max Chandler-Mather’s seat up in Brisbane and they want to win that. So this is all about politics for them. But this is such a fundamental issue, Mark, that it’s just shocking that you would have a Government that would play politics on such an important issue. And it tells you everything you need to know about the Labor Party.
Mark Levy: All right. Let me squeeze in a couple of quick ones before you go, if I can, David. Donald Trump has announced that he’s banned funding for UNRWA. But Penny Wong, if you’ll remember, she reinstated it before a proper investigation was even done into claims that staff participated in terror attacks. Should you win government, whenever this election is, will you withdraw funding to UNRWA if elected?
David Coleman: Yes. UNRWA, there’s been deep concerns about UNRWA’s activities in the Middle East and we would not provide funding for it in the in the Middle East and in the Gaza Region. There were nine people, Mark, who were stood down from UNRWA on suspicion of being involved in the October 7 Hamas attacks. One of the most evil attacks we have seen in modern history. So of course, we want to get humanitarian aid into Gaza. It is crucial – when you see those images of people in dire straits in Gaza, it is heart breaking and we all want to help those people. But the money should be going to other organisations, not to UNRWA.
Mark Levy: One last one. When do you think we’re going to the polls, when do you think the election will be?
David Coleman: Well, I don’t know, Mark. Well, we’ll see, but we’re ready.
Mark Levy: You must have an opinion, David. Come on, give me a day.
David Coleman: Oh Mark some people are speculating April 12th, but I’m not the right person to ask. I think that the main person with an idea on that is, his first name’s Anthony. Look what I would say is, we’re ready. We need to change this Government. This is one of the worst governments we have seen in our history. The cost of living crisis is out of control. We’ve got a Prime Minister who is asleep at the wheel, who is weak and stumbling across the stage without a clear direction for the country.
Mark Levy: It’s a big task, though, isn’t it, for the Coalition? I mean, you’ve got to win, what, 20, 21 seats to form government?
David Coleman: Yeah sure. It is a significant task.
Mark Levy: I think this is a really important point to make, right. We get caught up in all of the political issues and the policy announcements and all that sort of thing, the personalities. Do you like Albo? Do you like Mr. Dutton? And all that sort of thing. But at the end of the day, it comes down to the numbers. You’ve got to win those seats.
David Coleman: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s up to the Australian people to decide and we will be putting forward the alternative to Mr. Albanese. And in Peter Dutton we’ve got a leader who is able to take a strong stand, who stands for something, who speaks out and commits to a firm direction. In Mr. Albanese, we’ve got a weak leader, who has mismanaged the country and we now face this appalling cost of living crisis and so many crises in other areas, including what we’ve seen with the shocking anti-semitism crisis. So there’s a really clear contrast. We’ll be working very hard, every minute of every day until the election, whenever it is. And we’re certainly advocating for a change of government and to get Australia back on track.
Mark Levy: All right, David, I appreciate you joining us from Canberra, but we’ll catch up soon.
David Coleman: Thanks, Mark.
Mark Levy: That’s David Coleman, Shadow Foreign Minister.
The Hon. David Coleman MP
Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs
Federal Member for Banks