Subject: PM Albanese’s weakness on Gambling Advertising
E&OE…
Michael McLaren: A question for you, and a number of people are asking me this, what’s happened to the promise of sweeping reforms of gambling advertising around live sports? What happened to all of it, there was a lot of kinetic energy only six months ago. Something’s got to be done, we’ve got to save the children and all the rest of it. Well, nothing’s been done. Where did all of the determination evaporate. Now, you recall back in 2023, the Leader of the Opposition, Peter Dutton, promised a real plan to stop gambling ads and certainly to restrict them, during sports broadcasts. It was his Budget in Reply speech for 2023. Here he is:
[Audio Extract from Budget in Reply speech 2023] – Peter Dutton: If the internet influences our children, so does content on our television screens. In our country, footy time is family time, but the bombardment of betting ads takes the joy out of televised sports. Worse, they’re changing the culture of our country in a bad way and normalising gambling at a young age. Many Australian families have had enough. And that’s why tonight I announced that a Coalition Government will move to ban sports betting advertising during the broadcasting of games. Ads would be banned for an hour each side of a sporting game.
Michael McLaren: It’s a strong talk from the Opposition leader, but of course he’s in the Opposition. The Government, I think, sensing the mood in the water, thought, okay, well yes, Peter Dutton’s on to something. There was a very strong, not unanimous, but very strong groundswell of support following that being raised by Peter Dutton, the Opposition put legislation to the Parliament on the issue, but of course the Government didn’t go with it. They said no, no, no, we’re working on our own approach to gambling advertising reform, watch this space. Well, we’ve been watching and there’s been two fifths of nothing come from it. As the Fin Review reports today, a proposal was developed by the Communications Minister, Michelle Rowland, and I said earlier, I grant she’s been busy. There’s been a fair bit going on in the world of Communications. Nonetheless, that would have introduced a ban on social media gambling ads, a limit on ads on TV to an hour before and after live sport, a limit of two ads per hour until 10 p.m. There was also discussion about curbing ads in stadiums and on player jerseys. Because the logic is if you ban the ads on TV, what’s the point when the camera rolls and there it is plastered all over the billboards and the jersey? So, you do the whole thing. So, it was going to be a total ban, but it would have addressed palpable criticism that saturation of gambling ads were destroying the sports experience and inculcating gambling into young, impressionable minds. We were told before Christmas there’d be legislation in the House. It didn’t happen. We’re now being told, apparently, that there may be no legislation before the election. Why the hold up? Well, David Coleman is the Shadow Communications Minister. He’s on the line. David, thank you for your time. Good to speak.
David Coleman: Yeah, good to be with you, Michael.
Michael McLaren: Okay, so you know better than me, I guess. Why the delay? Why the hold-up?
David Coleman: It’s pretty obvious. It’s because the Prime Minister is scared. He’s scared of the reaction. So, on the one hand, he’s scared of the NRL and the AFL and how they react if he puts in place gambling advertising restrictions. And on the other hand, he’s scared of the gambling reform advocates, of people like Tim Costello and he’s scared that if he doesn’t go far enough for them, it’ll get criticism from them. And he’s also scared, to be frank, of his own backbench, who have been calling for action for a long time. So, what does he do? He says oh well, I don’t want to upset anyone, so I’ll just do nothing.
Michael McLaren: It’s an old each way Albo thing, he keeps living up to the moniker. He’s had some very powerful advocates to have a total ban, the late Peta Murphy very powerfully prosecuted the case. I don’t agree with that. I think there should be some scope to advertise a legal product. But I think Peter Dutton was right two years ago, whenever it was, where he basically made the point that footy time should be family time. And what we are seeing is a normalisation of gambling to people at a young age. There’s almost a predatory aspect to the saturation of it. So, there’s a happy medium somewhere that can be reached, surely.
David Coleman: Well, yeah. Two years ago, Peter Dutton stood up and said, I’m going to do something about this and I’m going to get rid of gambling advertising during live sport, because we shouldn’t have a situation where kids are growing up thinking that sport and gambling are basically the same thing, which is what happens now. And so, when kids are watching the league and the betting guy comes on and says, “Nathan Cleary seven dollars to be the first try scorer,” you’ve got little kids around the country saying to their mum or dad, what does that mean? And so instead of talking about the game, we’re talking about gambling. And Peter thought that was unacceptable, as do I. And that’s why two years ago we actually did something about it. But we’ve got a Prime Minister who is so scared of the reaction, whether it’s the sports or Tim Costello or whoever, that he is doing absolutely nothing. And, when you think about it, we encourage our kids, we teach our kids to have the courage of their convictions, and the Prime Minister is showing no courage and no conviction. And as you mentioned, the late Peta Murphy nearly two years ago put forward a proposal. There’s been no response whatsoever. And, this is not building the pyramids, it’s not building the Panama Canal. Everybody knows the reason that this hasn’t been done is not because it can’t be done. It’s because the PM is scared to do anything, and I think that’s shameful.
Michael McLaren: That certainly is the impression I get. Look, I think something should be done, but we’ve got to do it carefully because there’s an inner libertarian in me, as indeed there is for many of your own backbench David, and you know this and people say, okay well look, gambling is as old as the Romans and beforehand, people can gamble safely, but a lot of people can’t, they get addicted. And if we are bombarding young, impressionable minds with this nexus between sport and gambling, sport and gambling, sport and gambling, we are creating an environment which could really be problematic in the medium to long term. So, we can’t let it get away and it seems to have run away, the saturation. But it’s getting that balance right. Could it be that the Prime Minister is simply trying to achieve balance here or is it that he’s just thrown the hands in the air and said, look, this is too hard, too hard?
David Coleman: Look, I don’t think there’s a person in the country who thinks this couldn’t have been resolved in 20 months. I mean, it’s frankly not that complicated. It’s just working out what you think is the right thing to do and doing it. There’s no excuse for it taking 20 months. And the reason we focused on live sport is that’s where we think the biggest issue is. In particular, as you mentioned, Michael, about kids, because we don’t think it’s right for little kids who are following their teams who, as you know, often love either football or the tennis or whatever it is, to be bombarded with these ads. That sends the wrong message and as Peter Dutton said, it’s changing our culture in a negative way. So, we put forward a very sensible proposal that said let’s get the advertising out of live sports. Now you mentioned before that there was a proposal that it was speculated that the Government was going to put forward, but actually there is no Government proposal because they never announced anything at all, so they are too fearful to do anything. Peter Dutton, as he always does, has stood up and said what he thinks should happen. He did that in a forthright way nearly two years ago, and it’s a complete joke that the Prime Minister is cowering in the corner rather than actually making a decision.
Michael McLaren: Just on this, let me play devil’s advocate, because there are many people listening. There’s no unanimity out there from people saying, we’ve got to do this. I’m reading texts come through now, they’ve said, well ok look, if parents don’t like all the gambling ads around sport, well, the parents control the remote control. Turn it off. People should be exercising an element of personal control. There should be autonomy here. We’re not all little robots being dragged around. Just because someone advertises Coca Cola doesn’t mean I race out and buy two litres of it. So, what about personal control, personal autonomy? How do you counteract that argument?
David Coleman: It’s a fair point to raise Michael, and certainly gambling is a legal product. Adults are very welcome to gamble. I’ve been known to have a bet myself Michael. So, I’m not sort of saying that all gambling shouldn’t be allowed or anything of that means, at all. But, when you think about that example, there aren’t that many times these days where the family actually gets together to watch something on TV as a group. And you can’t actually say, well, I’m going to watch the league without watching the gambling ads. If you’re watching the league, you’re watching the lead up to State of Origin and the gambling guy comes on and tells you what odds people are to be the first try scorer, not a lot you can do about that. And that’s why we’re particularly focused on the sporting events.
Michael McLaren: Is the issue, sorry David to interrupt, just with short time, is the issue so much that the guy pops up and said these are the odds or is it that they pop up regularly before the game, during and after the game with odds? Is it the advertising itself or is it the saturation, the number of the ads, that’s the problem?
David Coleman: Yeah, I think it’s a bit of both. I think, having those gambling ads during live sport, we think is wrong. We don’t think it should be happening. We don’t want kids to be put in that position. And as you say, they come up a lot, especially in the build up to those games. And that’s why our policy is to take them out from one hour before to one hour after the game. And look, if the Prime Minister’s got a different idea, let us hear it. But he’s not saying anything. He’s basically sitting in the corner, and he’s supposed to be the Prime Minister, and frankly, you can’t be the prime minister of the country if you’re too scared to upset people all the time.
Michael McLaren: You don’t gain from sitting on the fence, you only get splinters. Just finally then, we’re dealing at the moment with the power and the difficulty of trying to rein in the social media world with age limits and all the rest of it. Let’s say, you become the next Communications Minister, and you form Government under Peter Dutton. You guys start banning this in and around live sport, how are you going to be able to stop young people though going online, and getting the app and sitting there with their mobile device? They’re watching the TV and not getting it so therefore you have entities like the one I work for don’t get any revenue, but they’re going online and getting live access to all of the odds in some sort of unregulated, online, exotic market. You sort of, you could block it on one, but there’s still avenues they’re going to get to it, right?
David Coleman: Well, I think they’re unlikely to go and look for it in the same way that they get bombarded with it during the actual games itself. It’s a bit of a different situation. And as I said, if adults want to go and place a bet, that’s absolutely their right and it’s absolutely up to them. But we don’t think that, throwing these ads at kids during live sporting events is right. We’re not saying that’s the only issue when it comes to gambling advertising, but it’s certainly the most significant one in our view. And that’s why we committed to that proposal nearly two years ago. And we’ve got a PM that’s got nothing at all.
Michael McLaren: Well, you’re right there. We’ll speak again before the vote and we’ll see what happens after the election, whoever wins. Thank you for your time, David. I appreciate it.
David Coleman: Thanks, Michael.
Michael McLaren: David Coleman, Shadow Communications Minister.
The Hon. David Coleman MP
Shadow Minister for Communications
Federal Member for Banks