Subject: Ukraine
E&OE…
CHRIS KENNY: I want to go to David Coleman who’s the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister, federally, joining us live from Sydney. Good to talk to you, David. I want to go to another war zone, first up, and that is Ukraine where we’ve had this crucial phone call between President Donald Trump and the Russian President Vladimir Putin. Disappointing outcome in that Putin seems to be resisting any effort towards a complete ceasefire at this stage?
DAVID COLEMAN: Yeah, that’s fair analysis, Chris. We should treat the words of Vladimir Putin with great scepticism and to be frank, he hasn’t even said a great deal as a result of this discussion. This doesn’t help people on the front line in Ukraine who are getting pounded, whether it’s near Kupyansk or near Toretsk or wherever it might be. And Putin has a long history of not following through on agreements. The agreement here is around not hitting energy infrastructure, which they tend to be fairly sporadic attacks in any event. So we should treat it with scepticism. It’s a long way from a peace agreement and it’s another reason why Anthony Albanese’s adventurism in saying that he wanted to send Australian troops needs to be held up to very close scrutiny.
CHRIS KENNY: I’ll come back to that, but first up let’s have a look at some of what Donald Trump had to say.
AUDIO EXTRACT – DONALD TRUMP: And right now, you have a lot of guns pointing at each other, and a ceasefire without going a little bit further would have been tough. Russia has the advantage, as you know, we want to get it over with. Look, we’re doing this. There are no Americans involved, there could be if you end up in World War III over this, which is so ridiculous, but you know, strange things happen.
CHRIS KENNY: Well, Donald Trump’s being forced to adjust his timeline. Lives are being lost in the meantime. You mentioned the protection of energy assets. My understanding is that Ukraine has managed to hit some Russian energy assets and this would be Putin would want to protect his oil and gas reserves and facilities because this is how he’s paying for his war.
DAVID COLEMAN: Yeah, that’s exactly right, Chris, and where, I mean a real ceasefire is about a cessation of hostilities, it’s about Russia stop firing artillery, stop sending drones, stop sending missiles and that’s not what’s come out of these discussions. And as I said, anything that Putin said must be, should certainly not take it anywhere near face value. This is someone who’s responsible for the deaths of many, many thousands of people. We all want peace, but we want a peace that respects the security and sovereignty of Ukraine. They have fought courageously. People thought that President Zelensky might flee when the conflict started. He did the opposite. He’s deserving of our absolute support. But Putin’s words should be treated with immense caution.
CHRIS KENNY: Well let’s go to Anthony Albanese’s pledge to send peacekeepers to Ukraine. He seems to be walking back from that to some degree saying there might be a small contribution. Obviously, a lot of other European nations are talking about some sort of post ceasefire presence. Do you rule out any contribution at all by Australian Defence Forces to any such mission?
DAVID COLEMAN: Look, we’ve made it clear that we’re not supportive of putting boots on the ground, Chris. Look, there’s a number of key reasons. One of them here, Chris, in a peacekeeping scenario, as people like Mike Pezzullo and Peter Leahy, the former Chief of Army, have pointed out, any peacekeepers, should we get to that stage, would be stationed near the line of demarcation, so to speak. So therefore, within the range of Russian drones, of Russian missiles, potentially of Russian artillery. And with a counterparty who cannot be trusted at all and has a history of breaching agreements. A long way from Australia and with, of course, Europe having about half a billion people to draw upon for such a force. So this isn’t some Boy’s Own Adventure for Anthony Albanese. This is a very serious matter. We think where we need to focus in terms of our defence resources is here at home and in the Indo-Pacific region, where the Government has dropped the ball in terms of defence, and we’ll have more to say about that in the weeks ahead. But an issue to deploy Australian troops has to be approached with great maturity and Anthony Albanese is not doing that at all and that’s why it’s been called out by Peter Leahy and by Mike Pezzullo and by several others.
CHRIS KENNY: Yeah, but if you were to win the election, presumably the first call you would get from your British counterpart would be asking you to contribute, you would give them a flat no to any form of assistance?
DAVID COLEMAN: Well, look again, the statements that we’ve made, Chris, are in relation to putting troops into that area. We’ve said that we’re not supportive of that. The irony here is that the Government is dragging the chain on supporting Ukraine in many other ways, and yet the Prime Minister is off on this frolic in relation to putting Australian troops in harm’s way. We promised in October to provide 49 Abrams tanks, Australia did. They’re still waiting. Ukraine asked for coal from the Albanese government. They didn’t provide it. Taipan helicopters, we didn’t provide those helicopters. And extraordinarily, Chris, Australia kept its embassy closed in Kyiv for three years under Anthony Albanese. So on the one hand, the Government was saying it was too dangerous to have a diplomat in Kyiv, but on another, is taking a somewhat cavalier approach in terms of putting troops in harm’s way. So we’re very supportive of provision of defence materiel and other materiel and that’s where we think the focus should be.
CHRIS KENNY: Yeah, good point. Shameful the way we haven’t had that embassy staff. Thanks for joining us, David. Hopefully we can catch you again before the election. David Coleman there, who’s now the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister.